Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Don Salmon's avatar

While I agree with the importance you give this topic, it never seemed remotely as powerful a refutation of physicalist/naturalism as the simple fact (made very clear in Hart's "The Experience of God") that the only way human beings have knowledge of anything is through (non intentional) Consciousness.

I've so far never come across a physicalist (or naturalist) who has anything approaching a reasonable answer to this:

If all we know is through consciousness, on what basis should I believe in a purely faith based hypothesis regarding some kind of non conscious physical "stuff" that exists independent of any kind of consciousness.

One of the (non) answers I get is, "Well, then, you think this stuff only exists in some kind of universal "consciousness"? We have no "evidence" for that.

I rarely get this from scientists, but on occasion, some scientist who really doesn't understand what science tells us about the universe uses it too.

Here's a simple response for that:

Try to adopt a thoroughly physicalist outlook. Now look at all the science tells us about the universe. Look at all the technology around you.

Now, try to adopt a thoroughly physicalist outlook. Now look at all the science tells us about the universe. Look at all the technology around you.

Do you notice that NOTHING changes? This means science provides no evidence for physicalism, for idealism, for panentheism, for monotheism, for dualism, for non duality, etc.

Eric, can you point out the flaws in my reasoning above? I've not come across any, but there must be something wrong with what I wrote, otherwise, since it so simple, someone would have used it to defeat physicalism.

In fact, this is basically the argument Bernardo Kastrup uses, and so far, I haven't come across anyone (not even Jeffrey Garfield) who has refuted it - at least, not accurately. If you can, please do!!

Expand full comment
Joseph Rahi's avatar

I think believing that the mind is unique is the wrong conclusion. We see intentionality all through nature, if we don’t dogmatically reject the idea of it.

Neuron’s activity are quite obviously goal directed. AI bots don’t say hello by accident but by design, and are naturally experienced as meaningful. Even rocks rolling down hills and chemical reactions can be understood teleologically, as things seeking thermodynamic equilibrium.

We have to actively indoctrinate children to stop seeing teleology in the world. But we’re not doing this on the basis of any scientific evidence. It’s just a dogma we’ve inherited from the mechanical philosophy.

Expand full comment
18 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?